The Republic 190: That’s So Revan

I had a chance to sit down to talk to Star Wars: The Old Republic developers about the Shadow of Revan expansion. Of course, they were excited about it, but I wanted to talk to some community members about it, too.

This week on The Republic, I talked to Heather from Corellian Run and Pretty Little Sith, Redna from OotiniCast, and my friend and story hound Kyle to talk about the stuff that this interview revealed.

Normally, the Republic airs live at 9:30 p.m. EDT on Thursday, but this week, we had to prerecord the show so that we could talk about the new information stemming from the interview. If you can, you have to catch the live shows on Thursdays. We talk to the Twitch chatroom and answer questions as they pop up. The chatroom is as much a part of the show as the guests. So check it out on Gamebreaker when you can.


About Larry

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Larry writes for many different gaming news websites, including Massively, GameSkinny. You can catch him weekly on Gamebreaker's The Republic and read from his Star Wars fan site Hyperspace Beacon.

  • Shawn Hargrave

    Once again its not so much bioware as bioware only exists in name only EA guts companies they buy. Look at launch how much money did they lose not sending off the collectors edition on time and telling customers just to wait for it to arrive while others are playing the day of launch lol. I know 2 people who cancelled thier collector edition and bought they 40 buck version thats 400 bucks alone thier that they lost. Its EA who does the publishing and pr. Blame bioware all you like but thier just puppets and ea’s holding the strings. One thing EA knows how to do and they do it well is piss off thier customers and community. The whole cantina is just a fluff pr move anyways if it were all about game info id attend but i dont give 2 shits about those idiot clueless devs and thier not celebrities in my book. So as it goes with tor the emperor is always in the shadows so is it with EA the silent partner who pulls all the shit moves and blames bioware for it whos just a nameplate now

    p.s still waiting to see what discplines is %100

    • I got my CE ahead of time actually and I never heard about stories of CE’s not arriving on a massive scale you’re making it out to be. Also loosing two customers is more like in the range of 200 bucks, not 400. Still a lot though. :P Apologies for shooting down, but I kinda dislike when people exaggerate in their disappointment. Especially when other people will take the exaggerator’s words for facts and blow it up even more.

      That being said, there indeed are quite a few problems with false or undeliverd upon promises which BioWare could work on. As Redna said in this show, it’s the fansites that are the most reliable source of info, and that definitely should be BW’s job.

      Agreed on the disciplines btw, I’m very eager to see what it’s all about, how it will work and ‘feel’ in-game. Looking forward to playing around with it and see what it’s all about as I’m (carefully) optimistic about it. :)

      Also, it was nice seeing Kyle on the show again. I liked his input he provided on his previous appearance. So Larry, if you’re reading this, definitely see if you can get him in more often from now on. :)

      • Shawn Hargrave

        heres some more exagerations from massively back then http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/12/17/swtor-welcomes-collectors-edition-arrivals-and-suffers-credit-f/ they lost a ton of money from people cancelling thier collectors edition because james ohlen just told them to wait for it while the people that ordered the lower priced versions got thier registration code easier and faster then the collectors edition did.

        the collecters editions were 200 bucks back then lol. 200+200 = 400

        Its not biowares job its EA they do the publishing and pr its why its so shitty

        • I’m not sure where in the linked article it says, in actual numbers, that a lot of CE’s were late. If anything it seems the opposite is said:

          “On a brighter note, the Collector’s Edition of the game has already shipped to many (but not all) customers”.

          Notice how it says “already”, claiming imho many players actually got their CE ahead of time? The only problems seem to stem from independant retailers selling the CE’s they had received from BW (or EA, if you will) and not releasing/sending it until the official releasedate. An example from the comments in your linked article can be found:

          “Sigh… just phoned my retailer where I preordered and they said they can’t release my collectors edition until street date…. Dec 20th… ARRGH!”

          From my experience, though I have no numbers to back it up, there’s always a small amount of cases with problems on delivery concerning pre-orders of any kind, games not being exluded from this. It seems your two friends just happen to be a unlucky coïncidence in that matter. :/

          Also, my CE was 140 bucks, and that was normal pricing around where I live. You also said your friends cancelled their CE and then bought the regular 40 buck version. Apologies for doing (perhaps incorrect) 140 and substracting 40 from this, which you forgot in your own calculation, from your friends buying the regular version, cutting the “loss” by 40 bucks. 140 – 40 = 100. Then 2 x 100 = 200. That’s how I calculated it at least. :)

          • Shawn Hargrave

            140+140 with shipping etc would come to 280 290 with shipping lol. It was more then 140 from what i remembered. Its not a coincidence or a rare thing or anything else they lost a lot of money on that all they had to do was ship it earlier so it arrived on the 11th not the 20th.

          • Yes, but you mentioned how “they”, assuming you mean BW/EA here, lost 400 bucks. You also mentioned how your friends instead of the CE version opted to buy the regular version. So where BW/EA lost say 140 from the cancelling of one CE per friend, they also gained back 40 per same said friend when they bought the regular version. Hence you need to substract that from that 140 I mentioned, and then it’s really 100.

            You’re right when saying not a single person should have to wait if they payed for their product (regardless of how much the product costed). However, I don’t think I’ve ever seen an MMO that had such a perfect delivery at launch, 0 people not having a problem with their order that is. The grand scale of things, being so many people pre-ordering, often in the many 100.000+ numbers, would make this almost a thermal-dynamic miracle if not a single person would have problems.

            We could continue to discuss how that would be the real issue, or we could agree on the fact that BW/EA did a pretty darn decent job comparitively on delivering CE’s except for a rare few (an statistically almost unavoidable) cases.

            Anyway, I regress from further de-railing the comments here. My apologies for doing so. Have a good day. :)

          • Shawn Hargrave

            If they did a decent job my friends would have had thier CE editions as others would have as well. They wouldnt have had problems had they sent it off earlier. It was a publishing issue that EA was responsible for.

            Money lost is money lost its a business lol.

            Its not off topic its a good example of how EA has fubared the pr end and publishing/organizing aspect of tor.

          • Vicariousfan

            but as you also pointed out not a single person had to wait to play the game. Bioware gave them a grace period and the delay was mainly due to people getting slower shipping instead of next day.

            His story about people having to wait to play is actually a lie as that didn’t happen. People had to wait to get the collectors edition but they were still able to play.

    • Vicariousfan

      do you speak exclusively in hyperbole? Half of what you wrote has nothing to do with this episode and is factually wrong.

      Everyone who ordered the game was playing it on Launch day. They gave a grace period for activation when the game launched. But that has absolutely nothing to do with this episode. So why did you bring it up?

      it is also 100% not %100

      • Shawn Hargrave

        Why is it everytime i post your up my ass on here? excuse me for having an opinion thats different from yours NO not everyone who pre ordered the CE edition was playing on launch thats a fact i know 2 people for one who couldnt b/c EA screwed off with the shipping as per the massively article as well.

        I brought it up as it had to do with why the PR is so bad and communication is crap when it comes to this game. EA does the publishing and its why the pr and communication is horrible with tor. That CE shipping fiasco was an example

        I dont know what your deal is dude but you need to chill. Is my opinion an “alarming post” again here? lol

        • Vicariousfan

          I haven’t replied to you since you made that stupid comment where you said this was exactly like the NGE. Which everyone on the Swtor Forums said you were wrong.

          You are free to have your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.

          Saying people couldn’t play on launch day because they didn’t revive their CE is a outright lie.

          Bioware realized that some people wouldn’t be able to get the game on launch day due to shipping. Amazon for example was another retailer that if you didn’t order next day shipping you would get it a day late.

          Since they realize this could happen they gave players a 2 day grace period to enter the code

          http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=28618

          So again you are wrong. What you described didn’t happen. Everyone who preordered was still playing the game on launch day even if they hadn’t received their game yet.

          Additionally: As for your little anadoctal evidence about your “friends”

          http://www.swtor.com/info/faq
          Swtor CE cost 149.99 at launch not $200

          a standard edition cost 59.99 at launch

          So if they returned the CE because it was late, which wouldn’t have stopped them from playing Then it would be 149 – 59 = 90 so they lost 180 not 400.

          This is why i asked you if you only speak in Hyperbole. Because just about everything you said in your post was completely wrong.

          • Shawn Hargrave

            LOL no once again mr know it all they were told just like the guy on the massively article to wait till the 20th while me and the other people on my ts3 at the time were playing still b/c our registration codes werent in the box like the CE were So yes i do know for a FACT that both of them werent able to play the day of launch. It almost came to the point that i felt so bad for them that i almost bought them the cheaper versions b/c of how pissed off they were. So im sorry dude your flat out wrong about that. Were you in my ts3 as well? am i gonna hear you were next and they were wrong to lol. They didnt return it b/c it was late they returned it b/c the only they could play the game the day of launch was to have the registration code that like i have said was in the CE box on its way and i have said and james ohlen told all those people just wait for it while everyone is else is playing the day of launch.Your article link is the 15th after the day of launch almost a week after btw not the day of launch lol.

            My stupid comment about the NGE huh the one you called an “alarmist post” that was later turned into an article by the site itself.

            I dont know what your deal or obsession is here with me? its a bit creepy and every time ive posted on here your up my ass trying to prove things that arent true and no matter what your shown or told i supose even the massively article is even wrong.

          • Vicariousfan

            You should at least use google before you make stories up.

            The Game officially launched on December 20th. Everyone who preordered were able to play before December 20th.

            People who didn’t receive the collectors edition were allowed to KEEP playing for 2 days while they waited for the collectors edition to arrive. Correction they extended it to 11 days.

            Everyone who preorded was playing Swtor on December 20th. Early access was before December 20th and anyone who at least pre ordered the game was allowed into early access.

            You lied and you got caught in your lie.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic

            Can you even show me a link to an article saying a lot of people canceled the collectors edition? or is this more of your anadoctal evidence?

            Question: Do you read the articles you comment on? Yes Garry wrote an article using the title asking if this is the NGE? Why? Becuase that gets views.

            Not a single person other then you on that article thinks its remotely like the NGE. Garry even says its not the NGE.

            Your post on the Swtor forums, again no one thinks its like the NGE.

            There are articles out there asking if Gamergate is right. Guess what that doesn’t mean they are right.

            Speaking of you act a lot like the gamergate supporters.

            Here’s a hint. Stop making posts in which you lie and I won’t have to correct you.

          • Shawn Hargrave

            Uh yes i was talking about preorder release i.e early access lol not talking about regular launch lol you should have known that already…

            lol i think the better question is why are you trying to force your created reality on me? Then get mad when i disagree b/c i seen my friends couldnt play and cancelled thier pre orders b/c of registration nonsense in a box in the mail.

            Can you show me a link saying a lot of people didnt cancel thier CE?

            Heres a hint get overself and this obsession with me. Im going to continue to post on here and your gonna have to deal with it.Your just wasting your time and in the end you havent proven a single thing nothing and for what? b/c you think thiers a conspiracy here and all this lmao ok dude

            The only thing your proving is you having an unhealthy obsession with forcing YOUR views down peoples throats and only YOUR right no matter what. All of this proves nothing b/c my 2 friends dont have a malgus statue on their desk and they couldnt play at launch with us. I can prove they couldnt play but even with them your just going to go on and on and deny reality

            As for gamergate it doesnt mean their wrong either its all opinion either way something you seem to have an extreme issue with. My view on the disciplines is the best example of this as you called it an “alarming post” and then here you geesh. Its all about whos right and whos wrong and no matter what your never wrong lol

          • Vicariousfan

            then you are still lying. When you preordered it you given a code on your receipt to access the game in early access.

            Not having the game shipped has nothing to do with it. People were able to play the game from early accesses up until after the official launch with only paying $5 to pre order it.

            The only thing that would keep you from playing the game during pre release was not pre ordering it.

            I”m not mad i’m just pointing out that you are lying. You are saying your friends couldn’t play which is wrong. That never happened.

            I preordered mine from best buy, played all through early access then on December 20th they told me they ran out of copies. I guess Best Buy doesn’t understand what pre order meant.

            So I ordered a copy of the Collectors edtion from Amazon, got 2 day shipping with prime and put in my code on December 22nd. I didn’t see any interruption in service to the game.

            What’s funny is you are making this out like its a failure of Bioware when really its one of their best successes. They saw there was a problem ahead of time and made arrangements to prevent people from not being able to play.

            You can post all you want but when you lie and make up stories i’m going to be here to point out your lies.

            Yes Gamergate is wrong. They say its about Video Game journalist ethics yet they have already proven its not. Take Bayonette 2. They want Polygon to change the review score because they didn’t like the review. Doing that would mean that Polygon has to compromise its ethics which is exactly what they say they are for.

          • Shawn Hargrave

            LOL like i said even if my friends testified in court and myself under purgery you would still go on with this lmao.

            You sound like a bioware employee dude. Gamergate is neither wrong or right its all opinoin. Bioware/ea has lied more then gamergate even the hosts on this show admit it. EA has been voted worst company in america 2 times over and your going on about gamergate lmao.

            Lmao do you really believe thier is a conspiracy to make you think this didnt happen LOL. All i have to say is you better get used to people talking freely on here.

          • Vicariousfan

            well you would still be lying then. What you said couldn’t have happened. Receiving the Collectors Edition had 0 effect on if they would be able to play in early access as I pointed out to you.

            It sounds like you’re doubling down on this now. As soon as they preordered they got a code to get into early access.

            I don’t think there is a conspiracy because this didn’t happen to your friends and no one is backing you up. It’s just you making up a lie for some reason.

            Gamergate is wrong. It has nothing to do with an opinion, its about harassing women. The fact that you think they aren’t wrong says a lot about you as a human being.

            http://flavorwire.com/476317/gamergate-is-everything-thats-wrong-with-the-internet

            http://time.com/3512862/fixing-gamergate/

            http://www.tomsguide.com/us/gamergate-harassment-op-ed,news-19552.html

            http://www.clickhole.com/article/summary-gamergate-movement-we-will-immediately-cha-1241

            http://www.science20.com/quantum_gravity/blog/gamergate_style_harassment_does_not_happen_in_the_male_dominated_sciences-147155

            http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/17/6996601/on-gamergate-a-letter-from-the-editor

            http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2470461,00.asp

            http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/17/6996601/on-gamergate-a-letter-from-the-editor

            http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/15/6984715/anita-sarkeesian-utah-state-university-death-threats

            There you go that’s just the first few results from a quick google search.

          • Larry Everett

            Two things to clear up.

            1. Please,don’t talk about Gamergate here. Mostly because it’s off topic. And it’s something in hot debate right now. I don’t want that debate to pollute this site.

            2. There was an issue with CEs. That is why my main account is on a Digital Deluxe Edition not a CE. Before the game launched, I had a CE on order — well, before the game launched — I even had a pre-order key which earned me the black and yellow crystal. I was able to get into early access with my main account because of the pre-order, but when launch day came I couldn’t log in because my box didn’t arrive. This was due to an error on EAs end. They processed more orders than they had made, I believe.

            In order to play the game on launch day, I had to order a Standard Edition, which I later made a Digital Deluxe Edition. Yes, some people cancelled their orders for the CE at that point. I didn’t because I wanted the other stuff that came in the box. Now I have two accounts. I can show you sometime when I live stream. One account can get the yellow-black crystal but not the trooper armor, and the other account can get the trooper armor but not the yellow-black crystal.

            Does that end this debate?

          • Vicariousfan

            1. fair enough i can completely understand that.

            2. well that’s not what is saying. Shawn is saying that his 2 friends couldn’t get into early access because of CE not shipping.

            “Uh yes i was talking about preorder release i.e early access lol not talking about regular launch lol you should have known that already…why i said the 15th was 4 days after the fact i.e pre order launch…”

            Which didn’t happen.

            On your point that’s weird you couldn’t log in. I didn’t have a problem logging in and I got my game a few days later after the official launch.

            http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=28618

          • Larry Everett

            I think there was a grace period of a day or two, but it wasn’t long enough. I believe it took about a week after launch for me to get my CE. Regardless, some people did change their orders to SEs instead of the CEs which put BioWare out about $80 per.

          • Vicariousfan

            yeah like i said it was a 2 day grace period.

            but shawn is claiming that his friends couldn’t get into the early access because of the pre orders which makes no sense.

            That’s what the debate is about. Not launch day.

            My thing is just people making up bizarre stories for no reason. Claiming 2 “friends” didn’t get into early access because the CE didn’t arrive is just well strange.

            Especially how it has absolutely nothing to do with the episode. I get the feeling he has a major grudge against Swtor and EA.

          • Larry Everett

            I’m not really in a position to judge that, but if he does have a grudge against EA/BioWare/SWTOR, it’s understandable. They have all made some major mistakes in making the the game and the promises to the community. I’m willing to forgive them myself because I like the game so much. But some people aren’t into the game as much as I am, so I can understand how the layers of BS can build up a grudge and change perspectives of specific events.

            Even though he details might be off, the substance is there. And it’s the substance and perspective that matters the most — well, to me it matters. And it matters to the bottomline for SWTOR’s profits and the future growth of the game.

            Were his comments hyperbolic? Perhaps, but that doesn’t mean as much as the inherent perception of the game and the company that makes it.

          • Vicariousfan

            Maybe its a bit with my background in Project Management but to me the devil is in the details.

            The little details are often the most important thing and there is a major problem on the internet about giving false information. We see it largely in politics (don’t worry I won’t bring up any examples from there) and in video games.

            People come out and tell a lie and by the time the truth comes out the lie has already been accepted as fact. Swtor is a perfect example, look around at how many details people have gotten wrong about it since launch.

            Remember back when F2P launched there were people saying that F2P players don’t get sprint. Even today people repeat that lie. F2P players do get sprint, they get it at level 15 which is where you would get it when the game was still subscription based.

            What they did was move it to level 1 for subscribers as a perk.

            But even to this day people still claim that F2P don’t get sprint.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9VkWAGGzPI

            Now there are a ton of really crappy things they restricted in Swtor F2P but there is no need to lie about them. Hide head slot is one of them and action bars.

            Just 2 days ago I was at Dragon’s Lair playing Edge of the Empire and someone brought up Swtor and mentioned how he didn’t play Swtor because the developers promised 500 vs 500 PVP battles but never added them.So i asked him where he heard that and all he could tell me was on the internet.

            Can you believe that? No one at Bioware said anything like that.

            I’m sure you’ve seen this poisonous behavior from the gamer culture not just in Swtor but other games as well. There are some gamers who don’t like a game for what ever reason and do what ever they can to try to make it fail.

            Its crazy and probably futile but I try to stop the spread of misinformation

            If we don’t try to make gamer culture better who will?

          • Larry Everett

            The 500 v 500 thing is true, sort of. Gabe Amatanglo said when asked how many people could work in the Ilum PvP zone (paraphase), “I don’t know. 500? However, many the zone will handle.” I was there in the room taking notes when he said it. Details are important if they counter the perception. If the details of the situation aren’t going to change the perception of the player/customer, then it becomes fuel accusations of fanboi-ism.

            Perhaps its different for me given that I have a platform to give out information. But I’m more interested in the discussion of the topic or hindering false perceptions than I am the actual details of the situation. So I would approach the situation slightly differently. If someone came at me with the “SWTOR was supposed to have 500 v 500 PvP, and they didn’t” argument. I would approach it a couple of different ways. I’d ask why they are interested in 500-v-500 PvP and/or ask if SWTOR had had that if they’d still be playing.

            Most likely, the issue wasn’t the 500 v 500 PvP, it was something completely different. Maybe their friends all left so they were following the bandwagon. Or it could have been something else. Maybe they were a part of the open-world PvP groups that left because of the Ilum slide show. The details, in that case, aren’t important. Of course, later in the conversation the revised quote can be mentioned, but the root of the issue should be addressed first.

          • Shawn Hargrave

            The issue larry as i have asked you in the mail here is thier a tos here? If you look at the post from the start any post i have made this guy is on a crusade for what? does anyone really care that my 2 friends couldnt play on the 11th b/c of registration code nonsense? to him it certainly does. Its harrassment and stalking honestly lol. Do you see anyone else here going on a crusade like this larry?

            My point was and still is that EA is in charge of publishing and pr. I used what happened to my 2 friends who couldnt play on the 11th as an example of this and why the cantina screw up happened and other PR mishaps nothing more.

          • Vicariousfan

            Sigh… oh i’m not allowed to have an opinion?

            Like i said and proved before it is impossible that your friends weren’t allowed to play on early access if they preordered.

            If they preordered they got the codes. It had nothing to do with receiving the collectors edition.

            Your story makes no sense.

          • Shawn Hargrave

            none of this garbage and obsession and forcing your opinion down my throat makes sense. If you want to pretend im lying and this is a conspiracy to make you believe 2 people you never met couldnt play swtor on pre order launch day so be it dude. Larrys wrong were all wrong everyones wrong!!

          • Vicariousfan

            How is Larry wrong? What you said couldn’t of happened. People weren’t dented entry into early access because of not getting the CE. No one had the CE on the 11th.

          • Shawn Hargrave

            im not saying larrys wrong im saying that your saying that not me lol.

          • Vicariousfan

            where did I say Larry is wrong?

          • Vicariousfan

            do you not understand you two are talking about two different things. He is talking about Launch day. You are talking about Early Access.

            You see how those aren’t the same thing right?

          • Vicariousfan

            oh come on now that in no way is true. Saying “I don’t know. 500? However, many the zone will handle.” is not even close to the same thing as saying it will be 500 vs 500.

            I”m assuming that interview you did with him was before launch as well?

            I remember at being at their presentation at Pax before launch and them saying that Ilum wouldn’t be 100 vs 200 but small groups gurrelia style PVP.

            This type of spreading lies and misinformation does change the perception of games.

            Back when Swtor launched I was actually teaching AP Physics. I had a large amount of my students tell me that they heard the game was bad because guess what? misinformation they heard on the internet. After I corrected them those who gave it a try absolutely loved it and still play it to this day.

          • Shawn Hargrave

            I think you have a grudge in general with anyone who disagrees with you. You cant handle any criticism and you go nutso overboard with investigations like seriously is my opinion that really a big of deal to you? What is it to you really? I didnt make up shit here i told what happened to my friends and you went nutso on me plain and simple here no one else went on this huge rant against me its always you dude.

          • Vicariousfan

            now using fake accounts is against the TOS

  • Guest

    ;-P